Blog | Atheists are against torture. Christians, including those in Myrtle Beach area, are for it. What does that mean?

Happy new year, everyone. I hope your 2015 is better than your 2014.

And with that, on with the show ...

A few weeks ago I asked Myrtle Beach area (and other) Christians to give me their take on torture in the wake of the U.S. Senate report that outlined some of the things we did in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks in the name of national security.

And let’s not pretend. What happened was torture - not enhanced interrogation techniques.

Why did I ask Christians in particular? It isn’t because I believe Christianity has cornered the market on right and wrong and morality; it is just that over the years, I’ve heard from countless Christians who, unprompted, bring up the importance of their faith on all sorts of issues but heard little from them about torture. I wanted to know why.

Some people took me up on the offer and I wanted to share a few of them.

But before I do, check out this recent polling data showing that most groups of Americans are now in favor of torture:

Americans of faith learn to love torture

From that piece:

And the staggering levels of support for torture by Christians merely reveals that very few of them are Christians at all. Torture is not a gray area for Christians. It is the darkest stain there is. And the fact that 65 percent of white Catholics back torture tells you a lot about the terribly weak leadership of the bishops on this core and central issue. They were more interested in how to stop women getting contraceptives than standing up and being counted on torture.

Several factors play into this: the shameless and relentless campaign by the torturers to insist they did nothing wrong and even, against all the evidence, “saved lives”; the impact of CIA-blessed popular culture fantasies like “24” or “Zero Dark Thirty” which made torture seem heroic; the fathomless pragmatism of president Obama, utterly in hock to the CIA; the bureaucratic skills and sabotaging of the report by John Brennan; the broader polarization that meant that if one political party endorsed war crimes as a policy, roughly half the population would fall in line; the paranoia and panic that Bush and Cheney spread after 9/11; and the underlying American propensity for rationalizing revenge and violence, especially against anyone with dark skin and a funny name.

As an immigrant to America, this is a bit of a gut-check, to say the least.

The one group that doesn’t agree with torture? Those who don’t belong to any faith groups.

What does that say about the current state of things? That morality and standards are based largely on how angry and unsafe we feel, not something that is unbending, no matter the circumstance?

Many of the people I’ve been hearing from have been making the case that because terrorists do worst things, our torturing them is OK, or that it is the lesser of two evils because we are doing it for good reasons, to save lives. In all of those responses, the readers seem to assume that torture works - which is highly debatable - and that we do it only to bad people - never mind that we know innocent men were caught in our crosshairs.

Also:

CIA and Senate agree the torture program was mismanaged

Thoughts from Myrtle Beach area readers:

Reader Terry Alton:

Issac, Torture is wrong!

It is not who we are and God has nothing to do with it. I was raised to believe that we were better than this. That as a nation we would always take the moral high ground.

My, how far we have fallen?

If we torture others how can we expect anything less from our enemy? We made a big mistake in doing this and I am afraid that our soldiers and our country will pay for it dearly.

Reader Bill Shelley:

Issac,

On the question of torture, this Christian, white , southerner looks to the Golden Rule -"Do unto others as you would have them do to you".

I feel very strongly that Christ would, in no way, condone torture, and it bothers me greatly that the Americans who are first to defend torture are the ones who wear their religion on their sleeves and

condemn liberals like me for being "un-Christian" and "un-patriotic."

If we, as Americans, are going to cry when they do it to us, then we need to refrain from doing it ourselves.

Reader named Len Anthony:

My personal analysis of the use of torture does not rely upon or involve any religious considerations. Rather, the basis for my position is found in the ancient question “Does the end justify the means?” Suppose your 4 year old little girl has been kidnapped.

The kidnapper has been captured by the police but your daughter was not found with him. He refuses to disclose the location of your daughter. If that was my daughter I would strongly support either the police torturing him until he told them where to find my daughter or the police handing him over to me and allowing me to torture him.

To me, once he crossed the line of human decency and kidnapped an innocent 4 year old girl, he lost any rights no matter their origin or importance, and the need to save an innocent child’s life trumps any consideration of his rights or feelings. Now, extrapolate that to any situation in which innocent people are subject to being killed or harmed because the person responsible for placing them in that position refuses to help. Whose rights are superior? The innocent victims. So torture is appropriate in these circumstances.

My father left when I was around 11 or 12 years old. Before he left he told me he did not want me getting into fights. However, he said if I decided that the principle at stake was worth a fight, I should do whatever it took to win. I struggled with that advice all my life. Only in the last several years have I discovered what I think he meant. He meant: if the wrong to be righted is so awful that I feel I have to fight, then losing is not an option. The fight must be won using whatever means necessary. The same applies to the situation above. The “fight” to save innocent people is so important that it must be won at all costs.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reader Bruce Kasper:

Isaac,

We are fighting an undeclared war with an unknown enemy that wears no uniform. This enemy slaughters innocents; children, the elderly and anyone that does not subscribe to their perverted version of Islam. If you consider Enhanced Interrogation Techniques torture so be it, but if it saves the life of one American I’m all for it.

Those who disagree should watch the videos of this enemy beheading our citizens!

Which do you consider the lesser of two evils?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reader Michael Farria:

Interesting article this morning, before I comment on why I approve them you stated we used these techniques against "innocent men". Can you give me specific examples or names of these innocent men?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reader Bill:

Forget not that the history of Christianity is replete with torture sanctioned by the church. So, I really don't place too much stock in Christian's perspectives on that subject (come to think of it, not many other subjects I can think of offhand either).

This story was originally published January 5, 2015 at 10:53 AM with the headline "Blog | Atheists are against torture. Christians, including those in Myrtle Beach area, are for it. What does that mean?."